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Minutes of the

MINUTES OF THE
FOURTH FIRE TECHNICAL COUNCIL MEETING OF 2010

LOCATION:

PRESENT:
Ken Knox, Vice Chair South
Randy Brown
Sarah Curl
Ron Foxcroft
Bob Galloway
Dale Miller
Ron Schaller

Gerry Baron, Safety Codes Council
Kevan Jess, Chief Fire Administrator

REGRETS:

Ron Robinson, Chair Michael Cham Keven Lefebvre, Vice Chair North Jodi Nypuik Ian Sterling Michael Walker, FTC nominee Sidney Manning, Chief Plumbing and Gas Administrator (10:45 a.m. to 1 p.m.) Tyler Wightman, Acting Manager of Codes and Standards (10:45 a.m. to1:00 p.m.)
RECORDING SECRETARY:
Sandi Orr
NEXT MEETING:
Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by Ken Knox, Vice Chair South at 9:00 a.m. and a round table introduction was held. Adoption of Agenda
The following items were added to the agenda:
E.2.04.10 – Lounge Patio Fire Pits E.3.04.10 – CFA Direction regarding NFPA E.4.04.10 – Residential Sprinkler Systems E.5.04.10 – Enforcement of Fireworks E.6.04.10 – Municipal Responsibility for Administration of Part 4 of AFC. E.7.04.10 – Enforcement Processes under the SCA
Randy Brown / Dale Miller moved to adopt the agenda, as amended;
CARRIED

(a) Adoption of Minutes
Ron Foxcroft / Ron Schaller
moved to adopt the minutes of the May 14, 2010
meeting, as circulated; CARRIED
(b) Review of Action Items

All action items were reported as completed or listed on the agenda. Business Arising from Previous Minutes

E.9.01.08
SCC Mentoring Program
This item is pending decisions on E.10.03.09.
E.9.03.09
Review of Fire SCO Training – Terms of Reference
It was reported that Working Group is reviewing the draft Terms of Reference and this will be brought forward for approval at the next meeting. The Chief Fire Administrator reported that will be meeting with the SCC Acting Manager of Training, AEMA and Lakeland ETC to review changes to NFPA Standards to determine if there are any requirements that are not currently addressed in Fire SCO training. It was reported that this will also be discussed and reviewed by the Working Group. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 E.10.03.09
Review of Fire SCO Certification Levels & Designation of
The Chief Fire Administrator reported that the on-line survey was circulated to all Fire SCOs on proposed changes to the Fire SCO Certification Levels & Designation of Powers. The CFA has received no negative feedback on the proposals; however, the deadline for responses is not until next Monday. Leith Atkinson, Administrator of Certification, will report on the results at the next meeting on November 12, 2010. The initial report on the consultation feedback will be circulated to the FTC prior to the next meeting for review at the next meeting.
The Administrator of Accreditation and Coordinator of Appeals reported that
certification of over 100 Fire SCOs will be suspended next week due to
incompletion of Fire SCO code update training.
As any suspension can be appealed, FTC members were cautioned that should an
SCO contact them they are to have no discussion with the SCO regarding the
suspension and advise them to contact the SCC Office.
E.2.05.09
Calculating Occupant Loads
The Chief Fire Administrator suggested that there is a need to split the STANDATA into two separate ones. One STANDATA would simply address calculating occupant loads for typical interior structures consistent with the Alberta Building Code. Where the challenges exist are with outdoor occupancies, seasonal or temporary. Consensus was reached that the Chief Fire Administrator will redraft two separate STANDATAs, one to deal with indoor occupant loads consistent with the Building Code STANDATA and another to deal with a variety of outdoor facilities (permanent as well as those set up for special events).
E.6.01.10
Smoke Cloak – update
The Chief Fire Administrator reported that upon further research all issues appear to be mostly addressed in STANDATA 97 FCB 027 – “Smoke Type Building Security Systems”. The Chief Fire Administrator will be incorporating recommendations from CANASA (Canadian Alarm and Security Association) into the STANDATA for review at a future meeting. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 E.3.02.10
Sprinklering in Senior’s Lodges and other Accommodations
The Chief Fire Administrator reported that this research continues. It was reported that there are other issues related to multiple regulations and departments that are affected. It was suggested that there is a need to address determining the degree of physical and mental limitations of occupants relative to life safety. Meetings are being held with the relative departments and it is anticipated that a draft STANDATA will be available for review at the next meeting.
E.4.02.10
ABC A-3.3.3.5(1) - definition of Nurse
The Chief Fire Administrator reported that informally since “nurse” is not a defined term only the definition in the Webster dictionary can be used relative to the Alberta Building Code. It was suggested that “nursing care” become a defined term in the Alberta Fire and Building Codes.
E.5.02.10
2012 AFC Development Process
It was reported that the AFC will be published in late 2012 or early 2013. Although code change proposals are accepted at any time, a communication will be issued within the next month or two with a deadline for proposal submissions of March 31 or April 30, 2011.
E.8.02.10
Fire Investigations – Purpose, Information Ownership,
Release of Information
A legal opinion from Brownlee LLP was circulated as confidential information (Handout #1). It was requested by the Fire Commissioners Office that this item be deferred to the November 2010 meeting. Due to the lengthiness and complexity of the opinion, all council members were asked to review this information for further discussion at the next meeting.
E.9.02.10
Water Supply Delivery Rate (Section 3.2.5.7. ABC)
Dale Miller provided background on the on-site water required for firefighting on specific buildings. This water supply is typically stored in a pond or cistern. As a tank or shuttle system provides better flow rates, many fire departments don’t utilize that water supply and it was suggested that alternative solutions be included in the code. It was suggested that the proposed code change include reference to requiring approval by the local fire department or fire authority that provides fire suppression services. Dale Miller and the Chief Fire Administrator will work together to develop a proposed code change with input from AFSOA. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 E.10.02.10
Exit Doors – Alzheimer Patients & Strobe Lights
Photographs were passed around showing a sample of camouflaged exit doors. Dale Miller reported on the research he has conducted and asked for feedback on the process to determine camouflaging and to what extent should it be permitted. His research shows that camouflaging a door does not assist in deterring Alzheimer patients or wanderers if the exit door is at the end of a hallway. A discussion was held regarding whether a proposed code change is suitable or whether a STANDATA clarifying camouflaging would be more applicable. Although it was reported that ABC 3.4.6.10 states that “an exit door must be clearly identifiable”, the challenge exists when the door is painted with a mural after the building is occupied, thusly needing to be addressed later under the fire discipline. The secondary question was “does the existence of an EXIT sign above the door meet the requirement of “clearly identifiable. Dave Miller will develop and circulate a discussion paper.
E.1.03.10
Matrix Alterations
A brief review of the matrix was held and the following questions were asked: Should the Underground Petroleum Tank Installers seat be removed since they consistently chose not to nominate a representative? Should both the City of Edmonton and the City of Calgary both have representation on Council, rather than switching back and forth? Should both AUMA and AAMD&C be represented on council, rather than Other suggestions included law enforcement (arson), training or investigators (Fire Investigators Association of Alberta). The matrix will be re-circulated to all council members via email for discussion at the next meeting.
E.3.03.10
Fire Alarm Smoke Detector Sensitivity Testing
A discussion paper was circulated and reviewed (Handout #2). The Chief Fire Administrator reported on his research. There are conflicting opinions across Canadian jurisdictions and he has been unable to find any research or empirical data to indicate that this sensitivity testing would provide any greater degree of reliability than the annual smoke testing. Six options were presented for consideration. Members were asked to review the options and provide feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator by no later than October 8, 2010. The Chief Fire Administrator will draft a STANDATA, based on that feedback, for review at the November meeting. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 Members were also asked to consider why we would treat sophisticated fire alarm
systems the same as older unsophisticated systems with regard to testing
requirements. Discussion regarding this item was deferred to a future meeting.
E.4.03.10
Suggestions for Changes/Additions to ULC Standards
It was reported that the ULC Standards review for Fire Alarms has been completed. This item will be removed from the agenda until new ULC Standards are available for review.
E.5.03.10
Non-Qualified Maintenance at US based Chain Stores
It was reported that the issue has been resolved and will be removed from the agenda.
E.8.03.10
Fire Alarm Training for Pre-1991 Electricians
It was reported that this issue has been resolved and will be removed from the agenda.
E.9.03.10
“Elevator Fire Alarm Code Requirements” – Interpretation
It was reported that a meeting was held with the Acting Chief Building Administrator, Chief Fire Administrator, Chief Elevator Administrator. A further meeting with the Chief Elevator Inspector, the Chief Fire Administrator and Keven Lefebvre FTC Vice-Chair North was held and it was agreed that the Elevator STANDATA would be revised. Clarity on the different needs for new and upgraded elevators will be required. Keven Lefebvre and the Chief Fire Administrator will continue to work with the Chief Elevator Inspector and report at the November 12, 2010 meeting New Business
E.1.04.10
2007 Alberta Fire Commissioner’s Statistical Report

The Fire Losses report for 2007 was circulated with the agenda package. It was
reported that the intent of the Fire Commissioner’s Office is to supply the
necessary resources to ensure these reports are compiled in a timelier manner
than in the recent past.
Any further discussion was deferred to the next meeting when it is planned for
Mahendra Wijayasinghe to be in attendance.

E.2.04.10
Lounge Patio Fire Pits

Concern was expressed regarding a natural gas fuelled fire pit located on a patio
of an outdoor lounge. Photographs were circulated of the fire pit and excerpts were
read for a letter to the restaurant owner regarding the safety concerns of this
MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 particular device. Upon reviewing the photographs, it was uncertain whether it had any ULC/CGA/CGA certification marking. Dale Miller will forward the information and photographs to the Chief Fire Administrator and Vice Chair South. The Chief Fire Administrator and the Chief Plumbing and Gas Administrator will review the issue and report back to council.
E.3.04.10
CFA Direction regarding NFPA

Concern was expressed regarding the affordability of all CSA/ULC Standards,
particularly for smaller municipalities. It was reported that in the United States, UL
provides a copy of every UL standard to all authorities having jurisdiction at no
charge.

Ron Foxcroft / Ron Schaller moved to direct the Chief Fire Administrator to
investigate the feasibility of adopting NFPA 101 as the Alberta Fire Code or
to change all references in the Alberta Fire Code from CSA/ULC to NFPA;
CARRIED

E.4.04.10
Residential Sprinkler Systems

Sidney Manning, Chief Plumbing and Gas Administrator and the new Acting
Manager of Codes and Standard, Tyler Wightman were introduced.
A discussion was held regarding a presentation from a builder in the Calgary area
that will not build a residential home without a sprinkler system. A homeowner in
Lethbridge wanted to put a sprinkler system in when building a new home.
Unfortunately, the price escalated unreasonably due to the need of a site-specific
engineering stamp. The Lethbridge Fire Department fully supports residential
sprinkler systems and was frustrated with the need for this engineering stamp
when the system is already pre-engineered.
A discussion was held regarding the insurance perspective and it was reported that statistically, in some commercial properties, there are higher and more frequent claims from water damage due to mechanical damage. It was requested that the Chief Plumbing and Gas Administrator review the matter and consider a province-wide variance to allow a pre-engineered residential sprinkler system to be considered for equivalencies. It was suggested that APEGGA be consulted to support a generic engineering design for residential sprinkler systems. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 E.5.04.10
Enforcement of Fireworks
A draft copy of STANDATA FCI-10-02 – Enforcement of Sub-Section 3.2.10. and Section 5.7 of the Alberta Fire Code 2006 was circulated (Handout #3). This STANDATA was developed to assist in the clarification of enforcement relative to the original STANDATA regarding fireworks. Members were asked to review and provided feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator for further discussion at the next meeting.
E.6.04.10
Municipal Responsibility for Administration of Part 4 of AFC.
A draft copy of STANDATA FCB-10-02 – Administration of Part 4 was circulated (Handout #4). The purpose of this STANDATA is to clarify that opting out is only relative to storage tanks and their piping and not all of Part 4. Members were asked to review and provided feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator for further discussion at the next meeting.
E.7.04.10

Enforcement Processes under the SCA
The Chief Fire Administrator reported on work being done in conjunction with the office of the Chief Regulatory Crown Prosecutor to develop provincial-wide processes for the laying charges relative to enforcement of the Safety Codes Act. The Chief Regulatory Crown Prosecutor has indicated that his office will work with the Chief Fire Administrator to develop a “how to” manual that will provide guidance to all Safety Codes Officers and Provincial Court staff. Standing Agenda Items
a) Technical Coordinating Committee Report

The next meeting is scheduled for September 23, 2010.
b) Alberta Fire Code 2006
There was nothing new to report.

c) PTMAA – report
A new Administration Agreement is being worked on between the Province of
Alberta and PTMAA regarding the delegation of the responsibility for registration of
flammable and combustible liquid storage tanks over 2500 litres in capacity.
MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 d) FTC / BTC Coordination

(i) Residential Care Facilities, Group Homes and Daycares
The committee is still waiting for information on the 2010 NBCC/NFCC from NRC before proceeding with other building occupancies.
e) Permitting under the Alberta Fire Code

Background was provided on the original issue regarding permitting for areas other
than tanks in the Alberta Fire Code. The Chief Fire Administrator will conduct
further research.

f) Conditional Grant Agreements

It was reported that the SCC has received grants from Municipal Affairs. A memo
regarding the grant received for the assessment of utilizing a risk-based inspection
regime was circulated as information (Handout #5).
Next Meeting

The next meeting is Friday, November 12, 2010 at 9:00 a.m. in Edmonton.
Bob Galloway / Ron Foxcroft moved that the meeting be adjourned;
CARRIED

The meeting was adjourned at 1:55 p.m.
MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 - - - A C T I O N I T E M S - - -
E.10.03.09 Review of Fire SCO Certification Levels & Designation of

Leith Atkinson, Administrator of Certification, will report on the results at the next meeting on November 12, 2010. The initial report on the consultation feedback will be circulated to the FTC prior to the next meeting for review at the next meeting.
E.2.05.09
Calculating Occupant Loads
Consensus was reached that the Chief Fire Administrator will redraft two separate STANDATAs, one to deal with indoor occupant loads consistent with the Building Code STANDATA and another to deal with a variety of outdoor facilities (permanent as well as those set up for special events.
E.6.01.10
Smoke Cloak – update
The Chief Fire Administrator will be incorporating recommendations from CANASA (Canadian Alarm and Security Association) into the STANDATA for review at a future meeting.
E.3.02.10
Sprinklering in Senior’s Lodges and other Accommodations
Meetings are being held with the relative departments and it is anticipated that a draft STANDATA will be available for review at the next meeting.
E.4.02.10
ABC A-3.3.3.5(1) - definition of Nurse
It was suggested that “nursing care” become a defined term in the Alberta Fire and Building Codes.
E.5.02.10
2012 AFC Development Process
Although code change proposals are accepted at any time, a communication will be issued within the next month or two with a deadline for proposal submissions of March 31 or April 30, 2011.
E.8.02.10
Fire Investigations – Purpose, Information Ownership,
Release of Information
It was requested by the Fire Commissioners Office that this item be deferred to the November 2010 meeting. Due to the lengthiness and complexity of the opinion, all council members were asked to review this information for further discussion at the next meeting. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010
E.9.02.10
Water Supply Delivery Rate (Section 3.2.5.7. ABC)
Dale Miller and the Chief Fire Administrator will work together to develop a proposed code change with input from AFSOA.
E.10.02.10 Exit Doors – Alzheimer Patients & Strobe Lights

Dave Miller will develop and circulate a discussion paper.

E.1.03.10
Matrix Alterations
The matrix will be re-circulated to all council members via email for discussion at the next meeting.
E.3.03.10
Fire Alarm Smoke Detector Sensitivity Testing
Six options were presented for consideration. Members were asked to review the options and provide feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator by no later than October 8, 2010. The Chief Fire Administrator will draft a STANDATA, based on that feedback, for review at the November meeting.
E.4.03.10
Suggestions for Changes/Additions to ULC Standards
This item will be removed from the agenda until new ULC Standards are available for review.
E.5.03.10
Non-Qualified Maintenance at US based Chain Stores

E.8.03.10
Fire Alarm Training for Pre-1991 Electricians

E.9.03.10
“Elevator Fire Alarm Code Requirements” – Interpretation
Keven Lefebvre and the Chief Fire Administrator will continue to work with the Chief Elevator Inspector and report at the November 12, 2010 meeting
E.1.04.10
2007 Alberta Fire Commissioner’s Statistical Report

Any further discussion was deferred to the next meeting when it is planned for
Mahendra Wijayasinghe to be in attendance.
MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 E.2.04.10
Lounge Patio Fire Pits

Dale Miller will forward the information and photographs to the Chief Fire Administrator
and Vice Chair South.
The Chief Fire Administrator and the Chief Plumbing and Gas Administrator will review the issue and report back to council.
E.4.04.10
Residential Sprinkler Systems

It was suggested that APEGGA be consulted to support a generic engineering design
for residential sprinkler systems.

E.5.04.10
Enforcement of Fireworks
Members were asked to review and provided feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator for further discussion at the next meeting.
E.6.04.10
Municipal Responsibility for Administration of Part 4 of AFC.
Members were asked to review and provided feedback to the Chief Fire Administrator for further discussion at the next meeting.
E.7.04.10

Enforcement Processes under the SCA
The Chief Regulatory Crown Prosecutor has indicated that his office will work with the Chief Fire Administrator to develop a “how to” manual that will provide guidance to all Safety Codes Officers and Provincial Court staff. Permitting under the Alberta Fire Code
The Chief Fire Administrator will conduct further research. MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010 --- M O T I O N S ---
Adoption of Agenda

Randy Brown / Dale Miller moved to adopt the agenda, as amended; CARRIED

C.
(a) Adoption of Minutes

Ron Foxcroft / Ron Schaller moved to adopt the minutes of the May 14, 2010
meeting, as circulated; CARRIED

E.3.04.10
CFA Direction regarding NFPA

Ron Foxcroft / Ron Schaller moved to direct the Chief Fire Administrator to
investigate the feasibility of adopting NFPA 101 as the Alberta Fire Code or to
change all references in the Alberta Fire Code from CSA/ULC to NFPA; CARRIED

G.
Next Meeting

Bob Galloway / Ron Foxcroft moved that the meeting be adjourned; CARRIED
MINUTES: Fire Technical Council Meeting – September 10, 2010

Source: http://www.safetycodes.ab.ca/Council/Documents/FTC%20SEP%2010.pdf

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